Here is the link: http://www.newburybid.com/brochure/index.html

Quoted from richard.garvie

As far as I was aware, the voting for what's included in the business plan ends soon. So starting at the top, and working your way down, how many items do you think will be provided?

£60k salary for BID manager.
Office costs.
Admin costs.
£10k a month marketing "brand newbury", and that's a conservative estimate providing you can barter a good raddio / print package. If they decide to go for TV like Festival Place, you are looking at much more.

£80k running costs per year plus £120k marketing budget = £200k. Not much small change after just one item on the list, which is why there were rumours about the levy being 1.5% or even 2%.

Well here's the plan and you were not that far off. £60k running costs and £210k to spend (of which 40% is on marketing).
http://www.newburybid.com/brochure/index.html

It looks nice and sounds great (although a few vested interests outside the BID area have wormed their way in). But as we know with Newbury, the devil is in the detail.

Two things concern me.

1. The board can change the projects/budgets at any time without asking the businesses.
2. The board composition appears pre-cooked. WBC are on this board, and apparently there's a need for TWO "property professionals" AND one finance representative (wonder who they could have in mind). Seems strange to me when there's no rep from say the pub trade/markets. While anyone who pays can become a board member, it doesn't say how the 5-strong Executive Committee is decided?

I sincerely hope that Mr Garvie is wrong and that the TCP cronies are not going to hijack the top posts on the BID. Perhaps NewburyP can put our minds at rest.

PS - I love the "what happens if I vote no" page!

Ooh...also....only one place for 'shopping centre managers' on the board, even though it goes against government advice to have landlords running BIDs.

A very comprehensive report.

Should make good bedtime reading over the weekend.

Quoted from BrianB

A very comprehensive report.

Should make good bedtime reading over the weekend.

Whatever floats your boat!  

Let's hope that this new committee can do something about the crap set of Christmas lights that currently adorn the town.

Half the bulbs are not working and there seems to be a complete set missing in Northbrook Street.

Years ago, Newbury used to have a very colourful display. We might just as well not bother with what we have now.

Quoted from Archie

Let's hope that this new committee can do something about the crap set of Christmas lights that currently adorn the town.

Half the bulbs are not working and there seems to be a complete set missing in Northbrook Street.

Years ago, Newbury used to have a very colourful display. We might just as well not bother with what we have now.

This seems to be a recurring problem in Newbury?

CCTV that has been upgraded but is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard, result - taxpayers paying good money for a system that might as well have been scrapped?

Taxpayers paying for Christmas lights that are really an embarressment - as you say may as well have not bothered?

Taxpayers paying for refuse collection that now only happens one a fortnight - result plastic rubbish sacks accumulating- taxpayers have to take own refuse to recycle center or fly tip?

Victoria Park play area refitted - result even a sign of rain and it floods and is covered in mud - broken play items and no safety fencing?

But they are proud to say they have not raised council tax![b][/b]  

This block voting thing has to be wrong. Whatever happened to OMOV?

So if I have a shop in the Kennet Centre, I can't vote against the BID because my landlord has already decided on my behalf and will charge me for it whether I want it or not. This cannot be right!

Quoted from scaramouche

This block voting thing has to be wrong. Whatever happened to OMOV?

So if I have a shop in the Kennet Centre, I can't vote against the BID because my landlord has already decided on my behalf and will charge me for it whether I want it or not. This cannot be right!

What? Are you trying to stop the same people running Newbury that have always done so. Come on, this line of thinking will never do?
No wonder the country is going to the dogs?  

Quoted from Cognosco

What? Are you trying to stop the same people running Newbury that have always done so. Come on, this line of thinking will never do?
No wonder the country is going to the dogs?  

Posters on here are always moaning about the same people running Newbury. It may be, but if those persons didn't get involved, who would. Because a few people are interested enough in the town and probably their own businesses, what would the moaners like to happen. Everybody just walk away from it and let the town degrade for lack of interest or is there some smart plan which they might like to put forward. Just looking at the annual cost of the BID, it's not that onerous per shop or business and I'm sure the benefits outweigh the costs if the booklet is anything to go by. The other factor that I find strange is that the aforementioned moaners are not even shop or business owners so why object to something which is nothing to do with them.

Quoted from scaramouche

So if I have a shop in the Kennet Centre, I can't vote against the BID because my landlord has already decided on my behalf and will charge me for it whether I want it or not. This cannot be right!

...and as you don't, why do you believe that you need to comment and query the rights and wrongs. Do you know of any of the owners are not happy with it. Of course you don't, but if you are a shop owner then do let me know the error of my posting.

Quoted from brian

Posters on here are always moaning about the same people running Newbury. It may be, but if those persons didn't get involved, who would. Because a few people are interested enough in the town and probably their own businesses, what would the moaners like to happen. Everybody just walk away from it and let the town degrade for lack of interest or is there some smart plan which they might like to put forward. Just looking at the annual cost of the BID, it's not that onerous per shop or business and I'm sure the benefits outweigh the costs if the booklet is anything to go by. The other factor that I find strange is that the aforementioned moaners are not even shop or business owners so why object to something which is nothing to do with them.



...and as you don't, why do you believe that you need to comment and query the rights and wrongs. Do you know of any of the owners are not happy with it. Of course you don't, but if you are a shop owner then do let me know the error of my posting.

This reply is about par! It has nothing to do with you even though you are a taxpayer! As to Newbury degrading for lack of interest, I thought it was already too late? Just because some posters are not shopkeepers should not prevent them commenting. After all it is non shopkeepers you rely on to keep you in business. You will find that to to try and enforce people to do something they really do not wish to is counterproductive. Much more sense to all go along with a strategy that the majority agree on, not with a strategy that a certain few would like.  

Any how disregard my comments as I am not a shopkeeper so as you say nothing to do with me. Like so many now are doing I will take my money elsewhere!  

Quoted from Cognosco

What? Are you trying to stop the same people running Newbury that have always done so. Come on, this line of thinking will never do?
No wonder the country is going to the dogs?  

No he's trying to prevent a takeover by the shopping centre managers.

Quoted from Cognosco

This reply is about par! It has nothing to do with you even though you are a taxpayer! As to Newbury degrading for lack of interest, I thought it was already too late? Just because some posters are not shopkeepers should not prevent them commenting. After all it is non shopkeepers you rely on to keep you in business. You will find that to to try and enforce people to do something they really do not wish to is counterproductive. Much more sense to all go along with a strategy that the majority agree on, not with a strategy that a certain few would like.  

Any how disregard my comments as I am not a shopkeeper so as you say nothing to do with me. Like so many now are doing I will take my money elsewhere!  

You just haven't thought this through really. It makes no real difference if you are a taxpayer as the Bid asks for a contribution from the shop owners. The TCP have been trying to channel the focus of Newbury towards being a pleasant and enjoyable experience for shoppers and perhaps make the job of earning a living for themselves a little less stressful. The national chains have something to contribute to the town of course as without them there really would be a bare town but I believe it is important that local shops also have a say in the way the retail town works and runs.

Can I understand from your final line that if a town has a BID in operation, you won't shop there either.

The BID's looking really good, and some of the projects will do Newbury a world of good.

I want it to get off to the best possible start, and as rents ALWAYS go up in BID areas, it's poor form to have landlords voting on what projects get the go-ahead.

As for the "same old faces"....we need the skills to match the projects (ie marketing, web and events)...not members of the same Grand Lodge.

Quoted from brian

You just haven't thought this through really. It makes no real difference if you are a taxpayer as the Bid asks for a contribution from the shop owners. The TCP have been trying to channel the focus of Newbury towards being a pleasant and enjoyable experience for shoppers and perhaps make the job of earning a living for themselves a little less stressful. The national chains have something to contribute to the town of course as without them there really would be a bare town but I believe it is important that local shops also have a say in the way the retail town works and runs.

Can I understand from your final line that if a town has a BID in operation, you won't shop there either.

Having read the text quoted in your post he seems to be saying that if businesses in a town take it upon themselves to improve their town centre with their own money then he'll shop somewhere else. Bizarre.

Quoted from user23.3

Having read the text quoted in your post he seems to be saying that if businesses in a town take it upon themselves to improve their town centre with their own money then he'll shop somewhere else. Bizarre.

Eh up User! I knew you could not resist indefinitely?  

I was refering to the comments made that if we are not shopkeepers then it had nothing to do with us and we should not be commenting!

My original post was regarding the same people running the BID as have always run Newbury, so no new ideas coming through then?
The town is not just for the shopkeepers and business, it is for all taxpayers.
I would have thought the more input from business and the general public alike would have been welcomed? Not to have the general public told to shut up it has nothing to do with you - seems a very strange way to operate especially as it is the general public who business relies on to keep them in business.

If there are members of the general public who can point out possible flaws with the bid then surely it follows that there must be proposed members of the bid may have the same view?

Personally I would be worried that the same people who have run Newbury in the past would be allowed to dominate the BID.
I would be worried that my contributions to the BID would only be used as a form of donation to enable certain people to finance their own agendas which, possibly, may be detrimental to my business?

Unless it can be shown that the BID will assist all the members, equally, then I would not personally vote for it.
It is still not clear if Parkway is included in the BID? I would be of the opinion that without Parkway it would be fruitless.

I am not against the BID as such I am able to see if done properly it may be of benefit to business but with the above caveats.

If the same old faces were to be running Newbury then it would be a disaster in my opinion and therefore I would take the only action that is open to me and vote with my wallet by not spending my hard earned cash in Newbury.

Quoted from Cognosco

I am not against the BID as such I am able to see if done properly it may be of benefit to business but with the above caveats.

We'll have to wait until next April to see who's running it, in the meantime, have you read the plan. What do you think?

Quoted from Cognosco

If there are members of the general public who can point out possible flaws with the bid then surely it follows that there must be proposed members of the bid may have the same view?

Personally I would be worried that the same people who have run Newbury in the past would be allowed to dominate the BID.
I would be worried that my contributions to the BID would only be used as a form of donation to enable certain people to finance their own agendas which, possibly, may be detrimental to my business?


If the same old faces were to be running Newbury then it would be a disaster in my opinion and therefore I would take the only action that is open to me and vote with my wallet by not spending my hard earned cash in Newbury.

You talk as if the people who have been taking the TCP forward have somehow or another created a disaster area. It is they that have tried to put things on a formal basis with the BID, for the prosperity of the town. Perhaps you might be specific about the hidden agenda of the TCP and possibly the BID, bearing in mind that once the BID is set up, it has a much more formal constitution with every business having the opportunity to participate in the decision making. So, do you know something that we don't know.
Who do you think has been organising the events that have been taking place over the last year. The TCP perhaps.
The extra cost to you as a taxpayer for the BID is nil, you are not being asked to contribute, but, if you have some ideas, then you will find the BID manager's email address freely available or if you can't be bothered with that then let's see them on here.
I'm fairly sure that there will be the opportunity for small traders, business owners to be part of the BID team should they have the inclination to participate. Perhaps you may need reminding, should you have ever bothered to read the TCP minutes that the chairperson is a small business owner in the Town Centre and it is not a WBC member or an architect or a senior police officer.

As regards your not shopping with your hard earned cash in Newbury, that's your choice of course but my mum used to say "Cutting off your nose to spite your face". I have to wonder how having a BID in operation makes the slightsest bit of difference when you walk into a shop. There are no exclusion clauses for customers neither do you have to pay at the door and the amount of contribution being made per customer is negligble so what's your problem. Do you know if Basingstoke or Reading have a TCP or have or intend having a BID.

Well I think it obvious some one has made a disaster of the town?

Whenever something new is proposed or comes into being in the town it does not seem to happen unless the same faces appear to control or run it.

Like I say not against the BID in general, just very wary, the name of the organisation changes but the same people run it and it continues in a similar fashion.

If I do not like what some business people are doing to the town then that is my right to vote with my wallet. It is the only way that I can influence the situation, albeit in a very small way, but there again if enough people do the same the outcome could be quite dramatic.

For the town to succeed the only way forward is to supply the taxpayer with the goods, shops, prices, and facilities that they require.
The alternative is to continue as we are with the town slowy dying even with a new chopping center.

Quoted from brian

You talk as if the people who have been taking the TCP forward have somehow or another created a disaster area. It is they that have tried to put things on a formal basis with the BID, for the prosperity of the town.

It is also they who in the past have blocked a number of initiatives such as the Christmas Market, had a half hearted attempt at an ice rink (which ran at a massive loss) and actively support the "vision" that has forced a number of smaller retailers and chains (think of Past Times, Thornton's and Rymans) out of Newbury. Don't forget that WBC have a large say in what the TCP does and also have financed it so far.  

Quoted from brian

Perhaps you might be specific about the hidden agenda of the TCP and possibly the BID, bearing in mind that once the BID is set up, it has a much more formal constitution with every business having the opportunity to participate in the decision making. So, do you know something that we don't know.

I don't think the agenda is hidden. It seems very clear that each member is involved for their own benefit and tend to close the doors on others that don't fit in.

Quoted from brian

Who do you think has been organising the events that have been taking place over the last year. The TCP perhaps.
The extra cost to you as a taxpayer for the BID is nil, you are not being asked to contribute, but, if you have some ideas, then you will find the BID manager's email address freely available or if you can't be bothered with that then let's see them on here.

Agreed that the events have improved significantly over the last year or two. This may be more to do with the partnership of the events co-ordinator and New Greenham Arts than the TCP. Who is paying for this post? It seems to to the tax payer via WBC. The TCP isn't as far as I know.

Quoted from brian

I'm fairly sure that there will be the opportunity for small traders, business owners to be part of the BID team should they have the inclination to participate. Perhaps you may need reminding, should you have ever bothered to read the TCP minutes that the chairperson is a small business owner in the Town Centre and it is not a WBC member or an architect or a senior police officer.

Is it really necessary to be part of something like this to keep your business going? I would have thought that if the BID is properly organised the benefits would be obvious. Being a small trader is difficult enough without feeling that you have play the political game to keep going.

Well said! Very succinctly put Bartholomew.

It is attitudes like theirs that actually puts the taxpayers off of backing anything in the town, Unless it gets thier approval it does not go ahead. Then they bemoan that people go to other shopping centers? How dare taxpayers comment on anything that is none of their business we run the town is thier attitude.  

Quoted from Cognosco

Well said! Very succinctly put Bartholomew.

It is attitudes like theirs that actually puts the taxpayers off of backing anything in the town, Unless it gets thier approval it does not go ahead. Then they bemoan that people go to other shopping centers? How dare taxpayers comment on anything that is none of their business we run the town is thier attitude.  

You know best.

Quoted from brian

You know best.

No I don't pretend to know what is best! I do know that when something has not been working for a long time then it needs something different. Just carrying on with the same people, the same tactics and just rebranding is in my humble opinion doomed to failure.

To just say do not comment as you are not a shopkeeper says it all really!
I would have thought the more open and honest discussion you had with as many people as possible for input would be of benefit for everyone, shopkeeper or customer. But there again, it would seem, we will still be stuck with the same input and faces as usual.  

Quoted from Cognosco

The alternative is to continue as we are with the town slowy dying even with a new chopping center.

The one thing I don't see is a dying town - Newbury is about as close to booming as it is possible to get in the current economic climate. Unemployment is very low, shop vacancy is low, we do have a surfeit of office space (a lot of which is being converted to housing), but developers are queuing up to build houses.

It's overdevelopment that worries me, not the town dying.  

Quoted from Cognosco

No I don't pretend to know what is best! I do know that when something has not been working for a long time then it needs something different. Just carrying on with the same people, the same tactics and just rebranding is in my humble opinion doomed to failure.

OK then be specific, what hasn't been working and if you could clarify that what do you propose.

Come on, stop attacking and discuss the BID plan please.

There are a long list of towns that feel a BID is for them, and there are quite a few who are going for their second term, including Reading.
http://www.livingreading.co.uk/

The BID has to be worth a shot as it provides options for all the businesses to negotiate, as a body,for all the services they share. That type of discount must make it financially attractive. As a pressure group, they will be able to voice concerns much more strongly than individuals which can only be good for customer safety and can also take an active role in keeping our town safe. There are opportunities for funding from other bodies which can provide extra income to the town centre.
Those are positives, I don't really see any negatives. All the participants have a vote and I doubt there is anyone on the board who wants to see Newbury decline.

If you want to see which towns are running and voting on a BID, http://www.ukbids.org/BIDS/index.php

Quoted from blackdog

The one thing I don't see is a dying town - Newbury is about as close to booming as it is possible to get in the current economic climate. Unemployment is very low, shop vacancy is low, we do have a surfeit of office space (a lot of which is being converted to housing), but developers are queuing up to build houses.

It's overdevelopment that worries me, not the town dying.  

I agree with all that, particularly the last point.

This story hasn't had much coverage here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-15826999

It looks like our beloved canal is going to be closed at least until March.  It's easy to imagine it never opening again, given the combination of thousands of new homes being built in West Berkshire and permanently reduced rainfall levels as a result of climate change. A tragedy in the making, but one which will pale into insignificance if we can't meet domestic and industrial demands for water.

How are we going to cope with the new developments at the racecourse and Sandwell Park not to mention the others that Cameron and Clegg will enable by destroying current planning regulations and allowing a free for all by landowners and developers?

Shopping and parking are going to be the least of our problems unless this is addressed.

Sandwell Park? Sandelford, obviously. And we have some rain at last although judging by the rain radar the current burst isn't going to last long.

It takes a long time to get an account validated for this forum????????

What right does Maggie Williams or Neil Carter think that they have to make decisions on behalf of all their tennants?

They should not be committing shopkeepers to a scheme that they don't approve of. I am not at all happy with the bid because it has been organised by the town centre partnership an unelected body that has endorsed every single aspect of the vision for Newbury. We don't want the same old faces under another name, especially because we the shopkeepers will be paying them to hold their secret meetings.

Quoted from Newbury Shopkeeper

It takes a long time to get an account validated for this forum????????

What right does Maggie Williams or Neil Carter think that they have to make decisions on behalf of all their tennants?

They should not be committing shopkeepers to a scheme that they don't approve of. I am not at all happy with the bid because it has been organised by the town centre partnership an unelected body that has endorsed every single aspect of the vision for Newbury. We don't want the same old faces under another name, especially because we the shopkeepers will be paying them to hold their secret meetings.

Not true, if you are a shopkeeper and want to serve on the BId board then, you can. That's what it's about. Perhaps you haven't read the promotional leaflet.
As far as the TCP starting the BID then perhaps that is a good thing if you have an issue as I'm sure you can get involved should you wish to do so.
Perhaps you might contact the BID manager and ask him to pop in and explain it to you, that would make sense.

Quoted from brian

Not true, if you are a shopkeeper and want to serve on the BId board then, you can. That's what it's about. Perhaps you haven't read the promotional leaflet.
As far as the TCP starting the BID then perhaps that is a good thing if you have an issue as I'm sure you can get involved should you wish to do so.
Perhaps you might contact the BID manager and ask him to pop in and explain it to you, that would make sense.

I think the point missed here is that Kennet Shopping and Parkway don't give the shopkeepers individual votes. I do agree that there shouldn't be block votes as it gives an unbalanced view of the way shopkeepers might vote. I assume that what you say is true that retailers from these centres can serve on the BID board even though they haven't voted. Maybe someone can verify this.

Quoted from Newbury Shopkeeper

It takes a long time to get an account validated for this forum????????

What right does Maggie Williams or Neil Carter think that they have to make decisions on behalf of all their tennants?

They should not be committing shopkeepers to a scheme that they don't approve of. I am not at all happy with the bid because it has been organised by the town centre partnership an unelected body that has endorsed every single aspect of the vision for Newbury. We don't want the same old faces under another name, especially because we the shopkeepers will be paying them to hold their secret meetings.

Quite. It's nearly as strange as saving places at the top table for "property consultants" (though Russell appears to have sensibly stopped short of slipping "architect" in there just yet. )

It looks like they struggled to get enough town centre businesses to front it up....they've brought in Newbury College, NWN, and racecourse from outside the BID zone to bolster the document.

Quoted from Bartholomew

I think the point missed here is that Kennet Shopping and Parkway don't give the shopkeepers individual votes. I do agree that there shouldn't be block votes as it gives an unbalanced view of the way shopkeepers might vote. I assume that what you say is true that retailers from these centres can serve on the BID board even though they haven't voted. Maybe someone can verify this.

I must admit that I find that a bit strange and I don't go along with it at all. What it means is that they, the shopkeepers, may have to deal through an intermediary rather than dealing with the BID as an individual. However, I don't know the full story and unless Kennet shopping and Parkway tenants have agreed the block membership I see it as a way for the respective managers to have too much power if they are voting on behalf of a block of shops. Not what the spirit of the BID should be about. If they want a No vote, then they are going the right way about it unless this grey area is sorted.
As far as the Racecourse being part of the BID, I guess that's within the spirit unless they try to use their muscle to influence the town. Telling the taxi drivers that if they didn't come to heel, they would be banned from the racecourse comes to mind.

Quoted from brian

Telling the taxi drivers that if they didn't come to heel, they would be banned from the racecourse comes to mind.

This is shooting yourself in the foot time isn't it? Banning Taxis from the racecourse only makes the punters have to walk further to be picked up after the races or having to walk further to get there to start with. Most of the cabbies I've used recently (Xmas party times and all that) thought it was the funniest thing they'd heard in long while.

Threep.

As the BID has to find £10k a year from voluntary contributions as well, anyone reading this is likely to conclude that this £10k is going to come from businesses outside the BID. It says they don't get voting rights for their cash, which is a big improvement on the TCP (where for as little as £150 a year, you get access to all sorts of information kept from public view).

The rateable value of WBC (library/museum/offices) must be quite substantial (perhaps £8-9k a year), which is much less than the £25k they've been throwing at the TCP.

Quoted from Muddler

The rateable value of WBC (library/museum/offices) must be quite substantial (perhaps £8-9k a year), which is much less than the £25k they've been throwing at the TCP.

Business rates are the rateable value x 0.433 - if WBC are getting away with under £25k a year someone needs to talk to the valuation office.  They must be paying much more than that for Market St alone.

Quoted from blackdog

Business rates are the rateable value x 0.433 - if WBC are getting away with under £25k a year someone needs to talk to the valuation office.  They must be paying much more than that for Market St alone.

No. They GAVE the TCP £25k this year (not related to business rates, but under the BID the council will be).

I see Millets is going (and the Schoolwear Company has gone)....there's a lot of empties in towns up and down the land. Don't mean to be gloomy but this BID's got a lot to do.

Quoted from Muddler

I see Millets is going (and the Schoolwear Company has gone)....there's a lot of empties in towns up and down the land. Don't mean to be gloomy but this BID's got a lot to do.

Why are they spending so much money advertising to all and sundry? Surely they have a database of businesses in Newbury town centre, can't they approach them directly?

There have been huge ad campaigns in magazines, newspapers and local radio. Who is paying for all of this?

They now have a banner across Northbrook Street, that can't be cheap.

One local shopkeeper told me that from £200,000.00 p.a. raised, £80,000.00 will go on administration. How many businesses are going to be sucked in on this gravy train to replace the steering group?