It seems that the TCP has been recognised as a Community Interest Company. Okay I suppose I can live with that.  

As a company it has a board of directors - makes sense I guess.

Directors are:

• Liz Chandler - fine, she's shown committment,
  

• Tom Rossiter, a local solicitor - no bad thing to have a legal chap on the board,

• Malcolm Bull, director of Rivar - do we really want a major local developer controlling developments in the town?

• Patrick Griffin, architect, partner in Sutton Griffin, architects behind Parkway, Victorian Park Pavillion, Wharf Redeveleopment plans etc.  Should anyone with this level of interest in town centre developments be allowed to be runing a largely publically funded group that promotes town centre developments?

No.

What with all the bad publicity that Griffin has been attracting both to himself and others, you'd have thought that anyone with any sense of decency would have kept a low profile.

Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

What with all the bad publicity that Griffin has been attracting both to himself and others, you'd have thought that anyone with any sense of decency would have kept a low profile.

Threep.

What absolute codswallop! What bad publicity? He's a local man designing buildings for the local community. Your comments really are ridiculously over the top. You need to get a grip on reality - can I suggest you have a nice cup of tea and calm down.

And which cave exactly have you been living in during the last year?

To quote you,  "What bad publicity"?  are you seriously saying that the Saintly (in your opinion) Mr Griffin has not brought bad publicity to his firm, to his projected ventures and the bodies upon which he sits ?

I don't know if he's a 'local' man or not, neither do I care, but he designs buildings for profit not necessarily for 'the local community' You need to open your eyes, and watch what's happening as Newbury is being dragged to hell in a handcart by unelected publicly funded groups and their apologists.


Threep.

To Mr Threep

I've lived in a Newbury Cave for over 15 years. And thoroughly enjoyed it, thankyou. Mr Griffin can defend himself I'm sure but he's no saint and nor are you nor I. He's a practising architect that's dragged this town kicking and screaming in the present.

Do some research on the 'unelected publicy funded groups' and have another cup of tea. They contain elected representatives of more groups that you realise. I suspect that sometimes they are happy to quietly hide in the background.

Quoted from John Ruskin

What absolute codswallop! What bad publicity? He's a local man designing buildings for the local community. Your comments really are ridiculously over the top. You need to get a grip on reality - can I suggest you have a nice cup of tea and calm down.

Well judging by the "Pavilion in the Park" the only good publicity is he gives work to the blind!

Having seen some of his work I would prefer we employed a good architect next time rather than a local!!

To Ruskin. J.

Quoted from John Ruskin

I've lived in a Newbury Cave for over 15 years.

Clearly

Quoted from John Ruskin

And thoroughly enjoyed it, thankyou.

That's ok..some people like living in caves

Quoted from John Ruskin

Mr Griffin can defend himself I'm sure but he's no saint and nor are you nor I.

But we're not laying ourselves open to allegations of chicanery. (or at least...I'm not)

Quoted from John Ruskin

He's a practising architect that's dragged this town kicking and screaming in the present.

Crikey. Single handedly he's got us where we are today eh?

Quoted from John Ruskin

Do some research on the 'unelected publicy funded groups' and have another cup of tea. They contain elected representatives of more groups that you realise. I suspect that sometimes they are happy to quietly hide in the background.

None of which proves that Griffins buildings are not tired, crass, unimaginative, and more suited to the 1970's than the 21st Century.

Wouldn't it be nice if Griffin refused to do any more work unless there were either tenders from other firms, or competitions held for the best building amongst various companies. As a semi local lad you may have had the edition of the Newbury Squeakly delivered to your cave (middle of last year) in which another firm of architects complained that it would be nice, for once, to have the chance to submit other proposals and designs.
The gist of their letter was that there seemed to be some sort of 'cartel' operating in Newbury.

Obviously this cannot be the case.

You may be happy with publicly funded bodies giving out contracts to people sat on those bodies with no tendering or competition, but wherever possible, I like my local democracy a little more transparent than that.


Threep.

The joy of these forums is their anonymity - but I'm happy to proclaim that I live in Newbury Town and have done so for quite a few years - if Mr Threep feels that makes me a semi-local, then so be it. But I'm entitled to an opinion, as well as as the next man. Mr Threep, please let me know when you feel, in your eyes,  I am allowed to become a true local!

Architecture and design is subjective; one person's folly is another's joy. Crass and unimaginative to one person, bold and inspirational to another.

If we're talking about the Victoria Park Pavilion, then the client (Greenham Common Trust), hired Patrick Griffin Architects to visualise the building, incorporating all the stakeholders requirements, and produce drawings and plans. If, and it's a big if, the plans proceed, then the design and construction goes to tender. You may not know that, but that's a fact.

That's the easy stuff out of the way. My concern is the bile coming from forum participants that assume 'chicanery' or worse, without facts or figures to back it up.

Griffin got around £50,000.00 to design that crap, that's one fact.  Do you think in a 100 years time the Newbury Society will be protesting at the demolition of the what is now the new St Barts School, the new library, park pavilion, etc...?

That's my point. Crap to you : innovative cutting edge design to another. Your inability to accept other viewpoints is what makes these forums such fun!

Quoted from John Ruskin

but I'm happy to proclaim that I live in Newbury Town and have done so for quite a few years - if Mr Threep feels that makes me a semi-local, then so be it.

No, it merely means that you have a different point of reference from the indigenous population. You may not  remember the cattle market, Davis's china and glasswear, the Red Rooster, Louis of Mayfair, Morris Garages, Wakefield Fortune, or even The House of Toomer. But I think you'll agree that sometimes you need the whole picture before before deciding what Newbury is today, as compared to what it could or should have been.

Quoted from John Ruskin

Crap to you : innovative cutting edge design to another.

Are you saying that to you, the Ark in the Park is  "innovative and cutting edge"? and, even if you're not, just to help us, could you point to any one of it's constituent parts that could be deemed to be 'cutting edge design' by anyone?

Quoted from John Ruskin

Your inability to accept other viewpoints is what makes these forums such fun!

We are always interested in other viewpoints. We tend to respect those who can argue a cogent case for them. Not just of the 'one mans meat is another man's poison' trite homilies.



Threep.

Quoted from John Ruskin

...My concern is the bile coming from forum participants that assume 'chicanery' or worse, without facts or figures to back it up.

My concern is the apparent conflict of interest.  Fine if Mr Griffin was a retired architect; I could see the merits of his position on the board of directors.  For him to be there as a boss of a local firm, which is what the thread's OP is all about, is preposterous and shouldn't be allowed.  It is this, added to the fact he seems to get 'all the big jobs' in Newbury, is what stoke people's suspicion on these matters.

Quoted from John Ruskin

That's my point. Crap to you : innovative cutting edge design to another. Your inability to accept other viewpoints is what makes these forums such fun!

You missed out the second part of the post where I doubted that people would admire the architectural merits of the new designs in the way they have with buildings like old Luker.

Quoted from John Ruskin

To Mr Threep

I've lived in a Newbury Cave for over 15 years. And thoroughly enjoyed it, thankyou. Mr Griffin can defend himself I'm sure but he's no saint and nor are you nor I. He's a practising architect that's dragged this town kicking and screaming in the present.

Do some research on the 'unelected publicy funded groups' and have another cup of tea. They contain elected representatives of more groups that you realise. I suspect that sometimes they are happy to quietly hide in the background.

As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.

To some, the fact that five to ten people (some of whom are not Newbury residents) posting under pseudonymous registered their dislike for something is unchallengeable proof that this is the general opinion of everyone in Newbury.

Mr Griffin helped Mr Carter to put the spec together for Park Way. Guess which firm of architects was awarded the final design contract?

Quoted from user23.3

As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.

I presume you have proof of this?

Quoted from Greenham Common

I presume you have proof of this?

Of course he does. He's in charge of fiddling consultation.

Pangbourne Pam (councillor in charge of Cartergrad) promised us the pavilion results by the end of this month, but as 60% are against it, even Phil User has his work cut out

Malcolm Bull is an excellent choice. His firm lost a packet on Park Way (they owned the 2 offices demolished to make way for....er...Debenhams), so it all balances out.

Does anyone think this would be better run if it was more 'democratic'? I don't. Our councillors are poor calibre, that it only has the effect of handing even more power to Carter, Appleton et al, who can run rings around them.

But if we are going to have business people involved, they could be elected from their representative communities. I believe Mr Griffin represents the Property Group of the Chamber of Commerce. The CoC only represents 6% of companies in our area. Even then, none of the members voted for their representative.

My understanding is he was asked to be on the CIC, because the TCP is stuffed full of half-wits.

Quoted from Meddler

My understanding is he was asked to be on the CIC, because the TCP is stuffed full of half-wits.

Thanks for that Meddler!

I am one of those half-wits.

BrianB.

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for that Meddler!

I am one of those half-wits.

BrianB.

Does the cap fit?

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for that Meddler!

I am one of those half-wits.

BrianB.

LMAO!  

Quoted from user23.3

As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.

To some, the fact that five to ten people (some of whom are not Newbury residents) posting under pseudonymous registered their dislike for something is unchallengeable proof that this is the general opinion of everyone in Newbury.

But as Newbury is the administrative capital of West Berkshire (and is also used extensively by people in North Hampshire), those of us who live in the district, are on the electoral roll, pay council tax, shop and bank in Newbury, use the town's facilities, work in the town, etc, etc., have as much right to an opinion on the way the town is developing and its future as those who reside within the town's boundaries, who may have vested interests.

Quoted from user23.3

As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.

To some, the fact that five to ten people (some of whom are not Newbury residents) posting under pseudonymous registered their dislike for something is unchallengeable proof that this is the general opinion of everyone in Newbury.

Are you saying that non-Newbury residents should not have an opinion on Newbury?

What about those in neighbouring villages and those who work here? Should we not encourage tourists to let us know what they like/ dislike or are they not important to us? Perhaps in that case we should do away with the WBC positions connected with tourism or is that a cut to close to home??

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for that Meddler!

I am one of those half-wits.

BrianB.

Sorry about that. At least you are elected

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for that Meddler!

I am one of those half-wits.

BrianB.

Classic. He seems to be getting quite a few things like this wrong, recently.

Quoted from Brewmaster

But as Newbury is the administrative capital of West Berkshire (and is also used extensively by people in North Hampshire), those of us who live in the district, are on the electoral roll, pay council tax, shop and bank in Newbury, use the town's facilities, work in the town, etc, etc., have as much right to an opinion on the way the town is developing and its future as those who reside within the town's boundaries, who may have vested interests.

Of course those from outside Newbury or Berkshire can express their views.

I was just explaining why the some of the views expressed here differ from what is generally thought amongst Newbrarians, to our new member.

Quoted from user23.3

Classic. He seems to be getting quite a few things like this wrong, recently.

Such as??

Quoted from user23.3

I was just explaining why the some of the views expressed here differ from what is generally thought amongst Newbrarians, to our new member.

Again, I presume you have proof of this?

Quoted from Greenham Common

Again, I presume you have proof of this?

Yes thanks.

Quoted from user23.3

Yes thanks.

Pork pie anyone?

Quoted from user23.3

I was just explaining why the some of the views expressed here differ from what is generally thought amongst Newbrarians, to our new member.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Again, I presume you have proof of this?

Quoted from user23.3

Yes thanks.

Quoted from Meddler

Of course he does. He's in charge of fiddling consultation.

Pangbourne Pam (councillor in charge of Cartergrad) promised us the pavilion results by the end of this month, but as 60% are against it, even Phil User has his work cut out

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Pork pie anyone?

Get into Newbury in the evening and get chatting to people in the pubs and restaurants of the town.

You'll find out what Newbrarians think first hand.

Quoted from user23.3

Get into Newbury in the evening and get chatting to people in the pubs and restaurants of the town.

You'll find out what Newbrarians think first hand.

Get out of Newbury to places like Hungerford and Lambourn and surrounding villages and ask why they don't come into Newbury anymore.

Quoted from BrianB

Get out of Newbury to places like Hungerford and Lambourn and surrounding villages and ask why they don't come into Newbury anymore.

They do. Anyone who tried to get a table to eat out on Saturday night would have witnessed queues stretching out of the door in some places, waiting for a table to become free. I've never seen town so packed and doing so well in that regard.

One particular restaurant had a couple queueing who were from Hungerford and I'm sure many others were from outlying towns and villages.

Quoted from user23.3

Get into Newbury in the evening and get chatting to people in the pubs and restaurants of the town.  You'll find out what Newbrarians think first hand.

Quoted from user23.3

They do. Anyone who tried to get a table to eat out on Saturday night would have witnessed queues stretching out of the door in some places, waiting for a table to become free. I've never seen town so packed and doing so well in that regard.  One particular restaurant had a couple queueing who were from Hungerford and I'm sure many others were from outlying towns and villages.

This is still only anecdotal evidence and could not be legitimately judged as what the majority of Newburians think.

What 'restaurants' are you talking about, by-the-way?

Quoted from user23.3

Get into Newbury in the evening and get chatting to people in the pubs and restaurants of the town.
You'll find out what Newbrarians think first hand.

That would probably only let you know what those who regularly go out in the evening think first hand. I would imagine that there would be a difference in opinion between what those folk think and what the people who frequent Newbury mainly in the day time think.

This would be especially the case when it comes to the pavillion, for instance. Those people who use the park mainly in the day time would have more objection to the project (I would think) than those who are often out in the evening and would like another evening venue.

Quoted from massifheed

That would probably only let you know what those who regularly go out in the evening think first hand. I would imagine that there would be a difference in opinion between what those folk think and what the people who frequent Newbury mainly in the day time think.

This would be especially the case when it comes to the pavillion, for instance. Those people who use the park mainly in the day time would have more objection to the project (I would think) than those who are often out in the evening and would like another evening venue.

Perhaps true in a few cases, though those that are out in the evening are very often out in the town during the day, being locals.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps true in a few cases, though those that are out in the evening are very often out in the town during the day, being locals.

Is this something you can corroborate?

Quoted from Greenham Common

Is this something you can corroborate?

No but it fits his argument - so it must be true

Quoted from Greenham Common

Is this something you can corroborate?

Yes thanks.

Quoted from user23.3

Yes thanks.

OK, so would you corroborate this to this forum?  Like I said, so far it only looks like anecdotal evidence and could not be legitimately judged as what the majority of Newburians think.

What 'restaurants' are you talking about, by-the-way?

Quoted from Greenham Common

OK, so would you corroborate this to this forum?  Like I said, so far it only looks like anecdotal evidence and could not be legitimately judged as what the majority of Newburians think.

What 'restaurants' are you talking about, by-the-way?

Why do I need to corroborate this to this forum? I'm just expressing my point of view given my experiences of living and socialising in Newbury.

Prezzo, Strada, Brasserie Gerrard, Le Petit Square, Montys, the Jaipur and the Old Thai House.

Quoted from BrianB

Get out of Newbury to places like Hungerford and Lambourn and surrounding villages and ask why they don't come into Newbury anymore.

A while back, when there was a bit of disruption from roadworks, I believe some people from surrounding villages didn't visit Newbury unless necessary. Maybe some haven't bothered yet but Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening.

Quoted from user23.3

They do. Anyone who tried to get a table to eat out on Saturday night would have witnessed queues stretching out of the door in some places, waiting for a table to become free. I've never seen town so packed and doing so well in that regard.

One particular restaurant had a couple queueing who were from Hungerford and I'm sure many others were from outlying towns and villages.

Having had a few friends drop in over the festive period we took to going out for a meal,without pre booking, Valle de orre, carnarvon arms, Jade cottage, Indigo bay, Yew Tree, Highclere, Prezzo and at none of these did we have to wait any longer that 30 mins for a table, in fact i feel that they were glad to see us.
  

Quoted from user23.3

Why do I need to corroborate this to this forum? I'm just expressing my point of view given my experiences of living and socialising in Newbury.

You don't need to do anything in my view, except you made statements that sounded more than simply anecdotal.  Now I realise that is all it was; empirical rather than scientific.

Quoted from user23.3

Prezzo, Strada, Brasserie Gerrard, Le Petit Square, Montys, the Jaipur and the Old Thai House.

You spoke to people in queues for all these places on Saturday?

Quoted from Greenham Common

You don't need to do anything in my view, except you made statements that sounded more than simply anecdotal.  Now I realise that is all it was; empirical rather than scientific.


You spoke to people in queues for all these places on Saturday?

Why ask me to do something then say I don't need to do anything in your view; are you playing games?

Not all of these places had queues.

Quoted from user23.3

Why ask me to do something then say I don't need to do anything in your view; are you playing games?

I said you didn't need to, it was you that questioned it.  I asked a question, it was up to you whether you answered or not.  IOW - You are under no obligation.

Quoted from Greenham Common

I said you didn't need to, it was you that questioned it.  I asked a question, it was up to you whether you answered or not.  IOW - You are under no obligation.

You're either playing games or backtracking. I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

Quoted from user23.3

You're either playing games or backtracking. I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

Where did you get the idea that I was back tracking, as I am most certainly not?  I asked questions that I wanted you to answer, it was up to you whether you did or not.  It transpires that your 'proof' was simply anecdotal.  Rather like the opinions on here that you are quick to criticise.

Quoted from user23.3

You're either playing games or backtracking. I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

And below corrected for accuracy!!!

Quoted from user23.3

You've proved me wrong again so I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

Quoted from user23.3

You're either playing games or backtracking. I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

Put under pressure, and throwing his toys out of the pram, yet again!

And I was just enjoying the debate!

Quoted from LocalRes

Put under pressure, and throwing his toys out of the pram, yet again!

And I was just enjoying the debate!

When he says "OK, so would you corroborate this to this forum?" followed by "You don't need to do anything in my view" I'd call that playing games or backtracking. It's not a question of "pressure" it's a question of him playing silly buggers and getting caught out. Again.

Funny how he's not asking anyone else to "corroborate" their views to the forum either. I'll not be feeding this particular troll in this thread again.

So User is caught out again!! When will he grow up and realise his antics don't work?

Quoted from Nobby

So User is caught out again!! When will he grow up and realise his antics don't work?

It's what he normally does when he makes statements that he cannot seemingly justify.

He made the following points...

Quoted from user23.3

As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.To some, the fact that five to ten people (some of whom are not Newbury residents) posting under pseudonymous registered their dislike for something is unchallengeable proof that this is the general opinion of everyone in Newbury.

Quoted from user23.3

Classic. He seems to be getting quite a few things like this wrong, recently.Of course those from outside Newbury or Berkshire can express their views.  I was just explaining why the some of the views expressed here differ from what is generally thought amongst Newbrarians, to our new member.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps true in a few cases, though those that are out in the evening are very often out in the town during the day, being locals.

I asked him to corroborate these points.  He replied by asking why he needed to.  

Quoted from user23.3

Why do I need to corroborate this to this forum? I'm just expressing my point of view given my experiences of living and socialising in Newbury.  Prezzo, Strada, Brasserie Gerrard, Le Petit Square, Montys, the Jaipur and the Old Thai House.

I said he didn't need to (it is up to him, I'm not his master).  He ignores the questions and accuses me of playing games.  

I would imagine that some here realise that this is just a ploy of user23.3 to distract from some conversations that might show some officials in poor light; I'm happy to play that game.  I am, though, disappointed that he didn't disclose how he knew that the majority of Newburian's points of view don't match those of this forum.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Newburian's

That's better

Quoted from user23.3

You're either playing games or backtracking. I'll not be replying to you again in this thread.

Oh come on! It was perfectly reasonable, in fact, normal forum procedure, to ask for facts to back up, what was, a sweeping statement. People will particularly expect this from you because they know where you work. Your work doesn't give you anymore insight into local issues than anyone else and you don't really know what the majority of local people think, you can only guess but you give the impression you are privy to certain information.

I don't particularly disagree with you but it would be refreshing to see you back down occasionally and admit you could be wrong. Rather than weaseling out of a debate by trying to humiliate someone who questions your personal statements.

Quoted from brian

That's better

The question is, if I may digress, is it pronounced: Noo-bare-ee-an, or Noo-bur-ee-an?

Quoted from 133

Oh come on! It was perfectly reasonable, in fact, normal forum procedure, to ask for facts to back up, what was, a sweeping statement. People will particularly expect this from you because they know where you work. Your work doesn't give you anymore insight into local issues than anyone else and you don't really know what the majority of local people think, you can only guess but you give the impression you are privy to certain information.

I don't particularly disagree with you but it would be refreshing to see you back down occasionally and admit you could be wrong. Rather than weaseling out of a debate by trying to humiliate someone who questions your personal statements.

So why did no one ask you or BrianB or in fact (see what I did there?) anyone else to back up what they said with facts? And why should you have to, on a forum that's based around people's opinions?

I stand by what I said, that's my view from talking to the people of Newbury and being local gives me an insight into what local people think. I've never mentioned where I work or what I do on here and I don't see what it has to do with anything, bar trying to divert the debate again by making it personal.

Like I said, he was playing games and now you seem to be too. Stop it, please.

Quoted from user23.3

So why did no one ask you or BrianB or in fact (see what I did there?) anyone else to back up what they said with facts? .

I have been asked and I have provided facts to back up what statements I made (doesn't make any difference though). The only difference lately is I don't say much  

PS I don't bother with game playing

Quoted from 133

I have been asked and I have provided facts to back up what statements I made (doesn't make any difference though). The only difference lately is I don't say much  

PS I don't bother with game playing

Fair enough. "Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening." what are the fact to support this statement?

Can you corroborate this to this forum?

Quoted from user23.3

So why did no one ask you or BrianB or in fact (see what I did there?) anyone else to back up what they said with facts? And why should you have to, on a forum that's based around people's opinions?

I stand by what I said, that's my view from talking to the people of Newbury and being local gives me an insight into what local people think. I've never mentioned where I work or what I do on here and I don't see what it has to do with anything, bar trying to divert the debate again by making it personal.

Like I said, he was playing games and now you seem to be too. Stop it, please.

You said you had proof when asked by Greenham - now it appears you haven't its just what you have heard from people that you have talked too.

I have conflicting evidence from those I have spoken too.

Whilst you have never mentioned where you work - it has a relevance when it is the organisation that you are trying to defend against all odds - and therefore includes a lot of the people you speak to who think Newbury has been improved!

As for playing games the word Pot black and kettle spring to mind!

Quoted from user23.3

Fair enough. "Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening." what are the fact to support this statement?

Can you corroborate this to this forum?

Why are you saying it is not true??

Quoted from Nobby

You said you had proof when asked by Greenham - now it appears you haven't its just what you have heard from people that you have talked too.

I have conflicting evidence from those I have spoken too.

Whilst you have never mentioned where you work - it has a relevance when it is the organisation that you are trying to defend against all odds - and therefore includes a lot of the people you speak to who think Newbury has been improved!

As for playing games the word Pot black and kettle spring to mind!

I wasn't trying to defend the TCP in any way.

I was just explaining to John who seemed amazed, why the views here were so different to his experience of what folk who live in Newbury actually think.

This thread is a great example of the sort of bulling that goes on if one has the "wrong" opinion, and why people who do rarely stick around.

Quoted from user23.3

So why did no one ask you or BrianB or in fact (see what I did there?) anyone else to back up what they said with facts? And why should you have to, on a forum that's based around people's opinions?

Exactly, I said you don't have to, that is to say, you are under no obligation.  I would still, however, prefer it if you could support your, what transpired as speculation, as actual fact.

Quoted from user23.3

I stand by what I said, that's my view from talking to the people of Newbury. Being local gives me an insight into what local people think. I've never mentioned where I work or what I do on here and I don't see what it has to do with anything, bar trying to divert the debate again by making it personal.

You are the one that accused me, without any justification, of playing games by appearing to deliberately grab the wrong end of the stick.  I have explained myself several times, which in my view makes my position clear.

Quoted from user23.3

Like I said, he was playing games and now you seem to be too.

I think there is only one person here that is demonstrably doing that.

I gave you an opportunity to explain how you can prove that most people in Newbury don't have the opinions like those held on this site.  It now seems that you are just as capable of issuing opinions as fact as much as anyone else.

The subtext of my point is perhaps one should practice what one preaches.

Quoted from user23.3

Fair enough. "Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening." what are the fact to support this statement?

Can you corroborate this to this forum?

That statement was partly based on information taken from competition entries showing addresses of people who have visited. Quite a few being beyond just 'surrounding areas'.  

Quoted from user23.3

Fair enough. "Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening." what are the fact to support this statement?  Can you corroborate this to this forum?

We are free to question anything that we might doubt.  I don't doubt that "Newbury gets visited by plenty of people from all around. Day and evening."  I do doubt that you know what the majority of 'Newbrarians' think.  Hence the question.  I need to add, that the absence of a question from me, doesn't necessarily confirm I agree with any particular opinion.

Quoted from user23.3

I wasn't trying to defend the TCP in any way.

I was just explaining to John who seemed amazed, why the views here were so different to his experience of what folk who live in Newbury actually think.

This thread is a great example of the sort of bulling that goes on if one has the "wrong" opinion, and why people who do rarely stick around.

If you call that bullying you haven't lived mate!

You are entitled to your opinion and it gives a balance to the forum even if you are outnumbered.

If you stopped twisting facts to make your argument - and occasionally conceded that your beloved WBC doesn't get it right everytime - you would find a lot more credibility added to your argument.  Instead you play games and try and discredit those who have proved you wrong!

Quoted from 133

That statement was partly based on information taken from competition entries showing addresses of people who have visited. Quite a few being beyond just 'surrounding areas'.  

You said "plenty of people", what percentage of this is of the total visitors to Newbury?

I'm keen to see the actual data behind this, not just that a few "competition entries" happened to filled in by people from out of town.

Don't be so vague and let's have the facts on here, not just opinion based on a few people who might have been from out of town because they filled in a competition entry form.

Quoted from user23.3

You said "plenty of people", what percentage of this is of the total visitors to Newbury?

I'm keen to see the actual data behind this, not just that a few "competition entries" happened to filled in by people from out of town.

Don't be so vague and let's have the facts on here, not just opinion based on a few people who might have been from out of town because they filled in a competition entry form.

Why are you bullying Factfile??? It doesn't work User - you are the only one fooled by these childish tactics!!

Quoted from user23.3

You said "plenty of people", what percentage of this is of the total visitors to Newbury?

She didn't claim in the sentence any percentage, nor as you did, make a claim about a majority.

Quoted from user23.3

You said "plenty of people", what percentage of this is of the total visitors to Newbury?

She didn't claim in the sentence any percentage, nor as you did, make a claim about a majority.

Quoted from user23.3

This thread is a great example of the sort of bulling that goes on if one has the "wrong" opinion, and why people who do rarely stick around.

I looked up the meaning of Bullying: a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.  

Quoted from Nobby

Why are you bullying Factfile??? It doesn't work User - you are the only one fooled by these childish tactics!!

Asking someone for facts and hard evidence is now bullying and are "childish tactics" are they, now I've turned the tables?

Quoted from user23.3

You said "plenty of people", what percentage of this is of the total visitors to Newbury?

I'm keen to see the actual data behind this, not just that a few "competition entries" happened to filled in by people from out of town.

Don't be so vague and let's have the facts on here, not just opinion based on a few people who might have been from out of town because they filled in a competition entry form.

I'm sorry if I have upset your plan to catch me out but I have always tried to base my comments on these sort of issues with facts, there's a clue in the name FACT FILE.  I can assure you that it is not 'a few' people. Have you heard of 'data protection' If I pop over to your office will you show me your web data?

Quoted from user23.3

Asking someone for facts and hard evidence is now suddenly bullying and are "childish tactics" are they, now I've turned the tables?

Deliberately misrepresenting an ironic post.  That's playing games in my book.

Quoted from user23.3

Asking someone for facts and hard evidence is now suddenly bullying and are "childish tactics" are they, now I've turned the tables?

Deliberately misrepresenting an ironic post.  That's playing games in my book.

Quoted from 133

I'm sorry if I have upset your plan to catch me out but I have always tried to base my comments on these sort of issues with facts, there's a clue in the name FACT FILE.  I can assure you that it is not 'a few' people. Have you heard of 'data protection' If I pop over to your office will you show me your web data?

Sorry, your assertion that plenty of people come from out of town is just opinion until you can corroborate it with a percentage of total visitors to Newbury.

Let's see the facts, not just opinions based on a few "competition entries" please.

Is User23 a street entertainer?

First he throws his toys out of the pram, then states, in words to the effect;

"i'm not contributing any more to this thread" - Oh, Yes He Is!

"i'm not contributing any more to this thread" - Oh, Yes He Is!

(Repeat as many times as found in this thread)

Then like Mr Punch, tries to turn the tables on other contributors!

Quoted from user23.3

Sorry, your assertion that plenty of people come from out of town is just opinion until you can corroborate it with a percentage of total visitors to Newbury.

Let's see the facts, not just opinions based on a few "competition entries" please.

You're being a silly boy now. It's not big and it's not clever.

Quoted from user23.3

Sorry, your assertion that plenty of people come from out of town is just opinion until you can corroborate it with a percentage of total visitors to Newbury.

Should it be an opinion, I fail to see why it matters.  A small percentage of the total of visitors can still be plenty.  Your statement is irrelevant.  You can get plenty of water from an ocean with just a bucket.

Quoted from 133

You're being a silly boy now. It's not big and it's not clever.

I did ask you for the facts twice and they've not been forthcoming, just opinion based on a few "competition entries" just as my opinions were based on conversations.

I think this demonstrates to John what I was talking about, so there's no need for me to post any more in this thread.

Quoted from user23.3

I did ask you for the facts twice and they've not been forthcoming, just opinion based on a few "competition entries" just as my opinions were based on conversations.

Except I asked if you could support your statement that the majority of 'Newbrarians' have contrary opinion to those posted on this forum and you said you could  I'm inclined, with out proof, to believe Factfile, but I realise I was correct not to believe your statement that you know what the majority of 'Newbrarians' think.

Quoted from user23.3

I think this thread demonstrates to John what I was talking about, so there's no need for me to post any more in this thread.

Agreed.

Useless 23 has lost the argument again folks!!

Quoted from Nobby

Useless 23 has lost the argument again folks!!

I'm not sure it is a case of losing the argument, more that it seems he can be just as guilty of posting opinions as fact, as anyone.

User23 stated:"As a new member you're yet to find out that the views expressed here by some of the regular posters often do not tally with the opinions of the majority of Newbury residents.

To some, the fact that five to ten people (some of whom are not Newbury residents) posting under pseudonymous registered their dislike for something is unchallengeable proof that this is the general opinion of everyone in Newbury."

1.  I am not a regular poster, by any means.

2.  I live very close to the town centre, and have done for some 46 years.

3   I traded in the town for most of that time, up until about 4 years ago.

4.  I have seen some retrograde changes to Newbury over that time, and suffered financially due to them.

5.  I often read posts without contributing, and have strong views as to what has happened, and is happening to Newbury over the years I have been resident here. I more often than not, disagree with your opinions.

There is certainly more than 5 to 10 people who think likewise, that have lived in Newbury for a considerable time, and if you wish to think otherwise, that just shows how out of touch with local people you really are!

I do find it rather amusing that he wastes no time in trying to cheapen the opinions posted on this site, yet cannot resist getting emotionally involved with the content.

We 'heard' you the first time!  

Wel I didn't post it a second time, I've been offline since the first post, until now!!!

Edit: I've deleted it, now.

Quoted from LocalRes

Wel I didn't post it a second time, I've been offline since the first post, until now!!!  Edit: I've deleted it, now.

Just 'bullying'!  

Leave that to User23, he's more experienced at it than you!